In this episode, Christina interviewed Edward van der Kleijn. He built a global reseller network from his bedroom in 9 different countries.
Let’s look at how he did it.
Questions and Answers
- 00:31 What is your program and who is it designed for?
- 04:04 So your customers don’t have to go hire a team do they?
- 10:07 What internal challenges have you faced?
- 31:36 What advice do you have?
Links and Resources
- https://amzn.to/3zkPNTt Happy Money, Ken Honda
[00:00:00] Christina Hooper: Hey, busy business people. I'm here today with another entrepreneur taking action. Edward van der Kleijn. He built a global reseller network across nine different countries from his bedroom. So I want to find out how he created a program, unlike anything I've ever seen before, scaled it into a global business.
[00:00:18] And did it all from his home.
[00:00:31] Edward to kick things off. Like I haven't seen another program like this one. Can you tell me a little bit more about it? Like, what is it? Who is it designed for?
[00:00:40] Edward van der Kleijn: Hey, Christina. Well, thank you, thank you so much for, um, for hosting the podcast and for letting me have a little time with you here, really appreciate it.
[00:00:49] My name's Edward van der Kleijn. I'm the head of international partnerships here at Blam. We're an international partnership program. We help people start their own digital marketing [00:01:00] agency. So, it started back in 2015. And, um, really our mission was to go out there and help small businesses make money from the internet.
[00:01:11] We found that, especially in small to medium sized business land, your mom and pop businesses, you know, the smaller companies. That, you know, your independent retailers, your independent restaurants, you know what, they just don't have a lot of time for this. And, you know, these are hardworking people that do 60, 70 hour work weeks.
[00:01:35] You know, they're the first ones to get to the business. They're the last ones to leave. They're in charge of everything. And you know, the reality is, you know, sitting behind a laptop. It's just not their thing. They're operational, they're working their business. And, oftentimes, they're a little bit scared of technology.[00:02:00]
[00:02:00] So we found a real passion for small business owners, because we're small business owners ourselves, and we understand their problem. And then what we realized that, you know, building websites at scale, especially on the sales side, it was going to be a bit of a challenge. So what was going to be the best way to grow our business, it was to consider franchising.
[00:02:24] So, um. And because we didn't want it to be as in a traditional franchise, you know, with, you know, where one of your franchisees would take on your brand. We really wanted people to have their own brand. You know, it became the partnership program that is today. So, you know, you get started with Blam. You get full back office with web designers, app developers, marketing managers, doing SEO, and pay-per-click advertising social media management. You get all the tools. Yeah. All the kits, everything you need, all the training that you need, you know, where we met the digital [00:03:00] marketers so that we're certified partners with them.
[00:03:02] So you get all the training. And literally, you can be sales ready within 30 days, without having any prior experience with running a digital marketing agency or business for that matter. And now what, nearly, nearly six, well, just over six years later. 300 partnerships later in nine, nine different countries.
[00:03:26] We're on our way to. Yeah, it's big things where we're just about the scale. We're just at this level now. And, you know, we still consider ourselves a bit of a startup, you know, even though we've been going six years, um, because this is the next level from now onwards. So yeah, very excited to be here.
[00:03:46] And thank you very much for sharing.
[00:03:49] Christina Hooper: Yeah. I mean, that's definitely a really unique strategy, so like, you're not just teaching people how to have a digital agency. You're providing the, you know, the [00:04:00] people and the strategy and the execution that they need to get stuff done. Right. So they're not having to go hire, is that right?
[00:04:07] Edward van der Kleijn: Yeah. So you'd expect a, you know, a partner, you know, maybe 12, 18 months down the road to hire maybe someone to help with telemarketing, you know. You know, doing some outbound outreach. Yeah. You might expect someone to hire someone on the admin side just to handle the initial client onboarding.
[00:04:33] Okay. Because there is a bit of work to be done in terms of gathering up the requirements from the client and then pushing it into our system. But we've systemized it, you know. For example, I mean you know this, a website brief can be quite complicated, can be quite laborsome. You know, you can get, you can fall into the traps of over-servicing clients.
[00:04:54] We've systemized it.
[00:04:55] Christina Hooper: I think every agency I have ever talked to has [00:05:00] that problem. Cause it's like one of my companies, we do outsource content for agencies. So I'm meeting new agency owners, like all the time. And I mean, that's why they're constantly over, like over delivering on stuff. They'll sell a website for like $2,000 and ended up doing what should be $10,000 worth of work.
[00:05:18] It's always over budget. It's always out of scope. You know, they don't ask the right questions.
[00:05:24] Edward van der Kleijn: And it's not, it's not conducive to the client. Yeah. So remember we're talking to small, to medium sized business, and this is a key, key aspect of our business, I think, is that the small business owner hasn't connected the dots between the digital presence and growth within their business.
[00:05:42] Yeah. They just don't understand it. They don't know what tools there are available and in their mind, you know, and this is even pre- smartphone. In their mind, that's complicated and expensive. Now, what are small businesses? We know what small business owners are interested in. They're interested in two things.
[00:05:59] [00:06:00] They're interested in making money and saving money. And so when we talk about connecting the dots is if you can present yourself and that's also the beauty. You're not coming in as a functional web design person who within a few minutes, bores the pants off the client. Right.
[00:06:21] Christina Hooper: Yeah.
[00:06:21] Edward van der Kleijn: This, your talk, you're someone who wants to help a small business, grow their business using digital tools, but you're talking about how you can help them find more customers and get customers to spend more, and get customers to spend more often.
[00:06:36] Now, suddenly there's business owners getting super excited. Right. And it's like, okay, well what do we do next? What do we do next? And then you say, well, we've got a program, we've got a number of different programs. I've identified one for you. Yeah. And we can probably get you started for as little as a hundred dollars a month, no upfront fees for design.
[00:06:54] It's just a whole compressed package into a monthly recurring fee. Right. But [00:07:00] because we found the conversation about how you can help them grow their business so they can see the value. Yeah. I did it today. Yeah. This is a lady who is a holistic. Yeah, you know, sort of, psychology expert who, charges, probably the equivalent of $150 for a session.
[00:07:21] And really the minimum you should have with her is 10 sessions. Right. But she hadn't figured that out yet by the way. Right. So my consultation is about how she productizes her business. So she suddenly now has an average lifetime value or lifetime value of the customer $1,500 per customer. So I said, how many customers do you think you can handle in a week?
[00:07:47] And then she said, well, I could do five a day. And I said, well, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah. How about maybe we can do two a day. Would that be more realistic? So by the end of the week, you've got 10 customers. And then by the end of the month, you've got [00:08:00] 40 customers. Oh no, it's not going to be that many. Oh well there you go then. So if we can make this work with maybe 15, 20 customers a month, how much is that worth to you? Great. Well, if we can get a website with a booking system to provide that for you. Yeah. For around $150 to $200 a month, you know, with a booking system built in, would that be worth it? I mean, she's going to go.
[00:08:25] Yeah. Why not? Where can I sign? What am I going to do? Yeah. But if you've got the content available, we can get it started. We can get you up and running within 10 days. Where would you like? Yeah. Can I take your credit card details please? And that's the process I'm not talking gobbledygook and tech speak. I'm talking their language, I'm showing them how they can get customers using the website.
[00:08:48] Christina Hooper: Well, then beyond that, you know, there's some people who understand the language, but on the flip side, now you have to deliver it. And I talked to a lot of agency owners, that something as complicated as a website with a [00:09:00] booking system, they don't have, they don't know how to build it. You know, and it's like, you're giving them those resources to help them build it.
[00:09:07] Edward van der Kleijn: And we want more people who are interested in growing a business and then want to become that techie person. In fact, we do get inquiries from people in the tech world. And we always like brace ourselves a little bit because here we go, here we get the list of a million questions when frankly, you know, you're missing the point here.
[00:09:27] This is about, you know, we want you to have anywhere between 25 and 50 customers in the next 12 to 18 months. Yeah. How many customers do you think you can sign up? Right. And that's the question because otherwise it's not going to be a good fit. We don't want. I mean, the way that we monetize is totally based on the volume that a partner produces, right.
[00:09:49] We have an initial fee for the partnership program, but then ultimately it comes down to how many websites they can sign up, you know, and that's the [00:10:00] beauty of our business. So we're ready to scale. We're ready to go. A thousand partners and a million websites. Bring it on.
[00:10:08] Christina Hooper: Now, building that many sites for people and helping agencies at the level that you're helping them, like that's to have some pretty unique challenges internally. Like what kind of obstacles are you having to overcome as far as your own staffing and like things along those lines?
[00:10:25] Edward van der Kleijn: Well, it's actually the, it's the same thing.
[00:10:28] It's over-servicing yeah. You know, obviously we have an inbound, you know, support system or ticketing system, tickets come in. And, you know, most of our partners are not that technical. And so the questions tend to be, you know, at a certain level, right. But then, you know, you build frequently asked questions pages or the website have helped pages in there.
[00:10:54] So we've built a resource center, um, that that is obviously has got, you know, [00:11:00] 20 years of, of our knowledge compressed into that. We do, um, A weekly training session on a Monday. Yeah. Which is usually, um, uh, sales, uh, specific sales tactics specific, which we did today. Um, today's topic was how to get, how to 10 X your business in one meeting.
[00:11:19] All right. Which is all about smart networking. Finding people can give you many introductions. Um, but then on a Wednesday we usually have more a product lead. Uh, meetings. So we, we, we have all our partners in a, what we call an inner circle, private Facebook group. Um, and, and so they, they come, they come to the live sessions in there.
[00:11:39] Um, So, so this, this Wednesday, so we've built our own business management system, which we called Blam connected. Um, you know, all our resources in there. Our support system is in there. Um, it's a CRM and a booking system as well. Um, all the invoicing and, um, subscription are based in there. [00:12:00] And, um, yeah, uh, I mean, so, so we've had to build that from scratch because it wasn't literally that literally wasn't available.
[00:12:07] Um, so, so a partner will come fully kitted out with their own, uh, fully branded websites. They have a, uh, a briefing page where they can order a website, an app, um, an SEO service pay-per-click service. Uh, they can buy domain names. Uh, set, set up with, uh, emails and also order graphic design services and blogging services.
[00:12:34] Um, but the product range has been expanding lately, you know, because obviously our business was actually only started out with websites first. Then we started building apps then, and then only fairly recently, we started adding in digital marketing services and social media because. Fundamentally, that's not really our expertise, so we've always had to buy it from outside, but we've now got enough volume to be able to hire in-house [00:13:00] services.
[00:13:00] And that's really important because, um, there are challenges with, with outsourced, uh, solutions that people have, you know, it's their business, it's not our business. And the profit margins then usually are, um, just not good enough. You know, to, to dispense, you know, at the end of the day, it's not, not enough there to spend enough time on it.
[00:13:28] Do you see what I'm saying? It is all about billable hours at the agency level. It's all about billable hours and we're in the affordable category, right? We don't charge a big upfront fee, you know, um, you know, we, we've got three SEO packages and the most expensive one is $350.
[00:13:46] Christina Hooper: That's outstanding.
[00:13:47] Edward van der Kleijn: Yeah.
[00:13:48] And, and, and the partner makes a profit out of that and we make a profit out of that.
[00:13:54] Christina Hooper: That's amazing
[00:13:55] Edward van der Kleijn: That is real, but it's a real challenge because, you know, get [00:14:00] getting a full-time SEO, professional, and not an intern that you train up to do it. Please don't do that. Yeah. Because that never works. Why?
[00:14:09] Because they just bother it just doesn't work. Right. So you need to have a professional. Now, these people are hard to come by. Right. They're in high demand at the moment. And if they don't have their own business to actually come and work for you, there's going to be a real incentive there. So, but that's the thing, you know, we're, we're growing, you know, and getting someone who's at a stage of their life where, you know, they've tried to be self-employed and they can't really handle that.
[00:14:33] Or they've tried the big agency. And there are fed of the office politics. Blam is just the ideal place right now, because they can develop their own department. Um, and we found someone like that, um, which, uh, which was really, really good. Um, and then he made the introductions for the Google PPC, right. So he's found his own team and that's what you want, you know, you want people to develop from within your own company.
[00:14:56] Um, um, you know, we're, we're small enough where that's still [00:15:00] is a thing, You know, and, and hopefully we, we don't really want to grow massive headcount, you know, and this is what we call prior to, prior to before starting the, um, the call, you know, although we've grown in headcount over the pandemic, we've actually reduced the size of our office, you know, uh, through a number of different reasons.
[00:15:22] Uh, You know, mainly our government here in the UK, not giving very wise guidance about mask wearing. Um, we were forced an extended period of, uh, how said isolation, um, ironically during freedom day, like there was wasn't freedom day for us, but do you know what I mean? So, you know, I've not been in the office for five weeks.
[00:15:46] Yeah. The CEO has been on holiday during that period.
[00:15:49] Christina Hooper: Ah, man.
[00:15:50] Edward van der Kleijn: And the business is growing.
[00:15:53] Christina Hooper: Yeah.
[00:15:53] Edward van der Kleijn: So, it's it. That's the business that we wanted to create. It's a lifestyle I can go away on holiday for two weeks. [00:16:00] Yeah. And the business will be bigger when I leave, but when I come back. Yeah. And that's the beauty about, about creating a business like this is that, you know, uh, you know, and it's it, it has this platform now where we can scale it without having to massively massively grow in size.
[00:16:19] I mean, so talk about the challenges. It's the same. As, as most, um, agencies and web design agencies just be very, very, we call it, be ruthless with your time. So we have a list. We have a list of core values that everybody has next to their PC. And now when you find yourself answering the same question twice, it goes into frequently asked questions, right?
[00:16:44] If you can create a Loom video explaining that particular issue. Create the Loom video with, with the partner's consent in the video, if you can, and then publish it into the resource center, notify [00:17:00] everybody in the inner circle to say that this is what's happened. You're likely to come across it yourself.
[00:17:05] Yeah. Or be ruthless with your time. If it generally is a non-issue you're entitled as an employee to tell the partner, this is an non-issue, Because even if you don't know the answer or the partner keeps on yanking your chain about it, it'll escalate to either myself or the CEO. And we're going to tell them that it's a non-issue, you know, it's like, you don't need to worry about, you'll never get asked this question by the client.
[00:17:38] So we, we call this, uh, painting seagulls. I don't know if you've heard that.
[00:17:45] Christina Hooper: I've heard of that one before.
[00:17:46] Edward van der Kleijn: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's, it's actually from a sales training called Sandler, Sandler training.
[00:17:52] Christina Hooper: That I've heard of.
[00:17:53] Edward van der Kleijn: Yeah. So there, there is this story about this, this little girl who's created this painting [00:18:00] and, and when she submits it for review, her art teacher insist on saying like, you should have painted Seagulls.
[00:18:11] And then, and then the father says, but my daughter didn't paint the seagulls. Why, why, why should we pay? I mean, she didn't want the seagulls in there. It's her picture. Why do you know? And it's like the requirements sometimes do not, the, there is no need for that. Right. And for us to be able to publish a website within 10 days.
[00:18:32] Yeah. With no upfront fee. Yeah. We've got, we've got to, we've got to get the minimum requirements to publish. Our platform allows you to publish a website. You've heard of this platform before. Yeah, it has two D's, a U, and an A, in it. Yeah. It, you can publish it even just as a theme and then you can start adding content.
[00:18:56] Right. It just, it it's, that's what it is. [00:19:00] Although we do, we do, you know, and obviously we do this at scale, so, and we do this from, from, a brief as well. So, so the end product is a fully customized website, but publish it. There is no way. There's no reason not to publish it. What's the point of having a, a website in development when you can publish it because you know, nobody's going to visit it.
[00:19:25] Unless you tell them that somebody, you know, you physically telling you that the website is live that's when somebody is going to visit it. It's not optimized yet that you're going to get hundreds of thousands of visitors pointing out that your website's not ready. Don't publish it.
[00:19:37] Christina Hooper: Yep.
[00:19:38] Edward van der Kleijn: Yeah. And that's the different mindset.
[00:19:41] Most web designers want it. Perfect. Now we believe, and you've heard this before that. Perfect. Is the enemy of,
[00:19:50] Christina Hooper: Yep.
[00:19:50] Edward van der Kleijn: Speed and speed loves money. So you w you want to get it up, get it, get it up. And then, and then the, and I also, because we, you know, our [00:20:00] packages are monthly recurring, guess what? Another hundred dollars is going to come out of their account.
[00:20:07] Are they gonna supply you with content? You know, are they going to supply you with the images that they promised you? Yeah, you betcha because that hundred dollars is going to come out again and that's the thing, you know, if you've got this traditional, oh, it's going to be $5,000 for the website and we'll charge you, you know, a third upfront, a third halfway through, and the third at the end, we never get to the end.
[00:20:31] Christina Hooper: Or they do the milestone-based billing and you can't ever get to the second milestone or the third milestone, whether they're trying to avoid the bill or just got other priorities.
[00:20:40] So you can't complete a milestone.
[00:20:42] Edward van der Kleijn: It's not sustainable. And, and so, and sometimes. You know, and we teach our partners this as well, the customer isn't always right. You know, frankly, the customer has no idea if they knew what they were doing and they had the time to do it, they'd be building their site on Wix or [00:21:00] Squarespace or, you know, um, Shopify, but they don't because they haven't yet, yet.
[00:21:08] Right. So
[00:21:09] Christina Hooper: Or ifthey did, it was tragic
[00:21:12] Edward van der Kleijn: most of the time. Yeah. And this, this was why I believe we've got such a massive opportunity. I genuinely believe we've got 20 years of massive growth ahead of us because smartphones have made people go like, Ooh, Ooh, wow. Yeah. As opposed to, oh, I don't know how to type. I don't even know where the on button is.
[00:21:30] They know to use this. Right. Yeah. And then COVID sadly, as everybody who has been denying themselves, a digital presence that can monetize, most of them are dead now they're just gone and those businesses have left.
[00:21:46] Christina Hooper: Yep.
[00:21:47] Edward van der Kleijn: So, so there's a huge, and the ones that have ,you know, managed to survive, they're hanging on, please can I have a digital presence that, you know, that where I can, where I can sell something.
[00:21:59] Christina Hooper: Well I mean, [00:22:00] it sounds like you've done a lot of really cool things. So it sounds like stuff, maybe even you didn't realize it was as cool as it probably is along the way. Like you started with a web development company and you sat back and asked yourself, how can we make this scalable? And I think that's one thing I see people miss a lot is that they start working on their businesses and they're like, okay, what's my barrier.
[00:22:21] You know, they never ask themselves. What's my barrier to scale. Once you've asked yourself that question, you came up with a very creative answer. He came up with franchising. As a web development company, like that's not something I've ever seen. I mean, it may be out there somewhere, but I've been in the web development world for 15 years.
[00:22:38] I've never seen anybody take that approach. Most of us go the route I ended up going and being like, well, I can't make enough money off of websites alone. So let's go and let's be an agency and you try and learn all the agency stuff. And you ended up going to a bunch of different ways. And then a lot of them end up walking away from websites altogether.
[00:22:53] Instead you embraced it. You said, this is our core competency. What can we do differently? You know, you looked at, you know, things to [00:23:00] onboard clients in a way that a lot of people don't think about like doing the resource libraries, having the regular training events, creating a community for your clients to congregate, making sure you're staying in touch with them on a regular basis.
[00:23:13] Like stuff that is just part of your day. Now, like a lot of business owners, they're not doing that kind of stuff. They're not, I mean, creating a community for your client. Like, wow. You know, they'll do an FAQ section maybe, but having a whole community where they hang out and doing regular events and stuff for them, that's like next level stuff.
[00:23:31] And then being creative with your hiring, being able to go find people that you know, will build their own departments. That's a whole other challenge that you're conquering as well. So I mean, there's a lot of really good stuff in there that I hope our audience kind of picks up on.
[00:23:46] Edward van der Kleijn: Well, the thing is, it's also realizing that, you know, we, we have a passion for business know, so both Grant and I have a passion for business.
[00:23:53] Um, you know, Grant comes from a graphic design background, but you know, really, really wanted to be a business owner. [00:24:00] Um, you know, I come from a, actually a hospitality and catering background. I fell into marketing and sales, um, you know, um, had this moment where I thought, well, how do I. Increase my income.
[00:24:13] Um, you know, I come from a background. I have no formal education. I, I, I flunked out of high school, so the.
[00:24:20] Christina Hooper: High school drop out here, too, dude, I dropped out my senior year.
[00:24:23] Edward van der Kleijn: Well, this is it so, um, and we can, we can go into that into another session, but, but the, the thing is, you know, I was always going to have a limit in terms of what I was going to be able to earn in, in like, employed, you know, bank payments.
[00:24:37] So I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki, like him or not. Lot of people don't like him. I don't, frankly, I didn't know any better. Then I got involved with, um, um, now we're marketing. I'd never heard of network mark. I thought it was great, you know, but then, you know, I get all these other people telling me how stupid it is.
[00:24:56] I got, I still am friends with people from that time. Yeah. [00:25:00] As a long time ago now I kind of moderately successful, but I got the personal development bug. Right, now all of that shaped, then, you know, I bumped into someone like Grant. I tell them my goals from aspirations then go, well, let's do that, then it's the first time that anybody's ever said to me, that is possible.
[00:25:19] If I, if I sat in, in a, in a, in a job interview and I said, I wanted to earn, um, you know, $150,000, they did that go like, well, you won't be earning that here ,well then, okay. Then I'm going. And I'm kinda like what, are you not here for a job now I want to, I want to have a, you know, I want to earn a lot of money.
[00:25:37] So Grant was the first one who said, yeah, let's do it. And I was like, okay, let's do it. What do we do? Right. And so, so, so.
[00:25:47] Christina Hooper: Well now you're out doing that for other people. Like you're helping other agencies build their businesses and they're helping people build their businesses. And it's like, you've just went a whole
[00:25:55] nother level with it.
[00:25:57] Edward van der Kleijn: It needs to come from a passion to help. And, [00:26:00] and that's what I always learned. Um, you know, as long as you're helping people, it's genuine and you know, that, that's what we do. So, and you'll find that from all the testimonials that you'll see on the website, um, you know, and on the YouTube channel, everybody's got like these guys bend over backwards for us and that.
[00:26:16] Christina Hooper: Yeah. Well,
[00:26:16] and I did see that I read through a lot of your testimonials on your website and it was impressive not only what you've done, but you could hear the change in the testimonials. You know, it's like I'm reading through it. And you're changing lives, you know, and you stayed true to who you wanted to work with.
[00:26:34] He wanted to work with small business owners and a lot of people when they get into web design or get into agencies, they end up being told you can't work with small business owners. I was told that, but I don't know how many gurus in my space that I couldn't work with small business owners, that they can't pay you enough to make it.
[00:26:49] And you can't work for the people that you want to work with. You have to go for higher level, big companies. Otherwise you'll never reach your own financial goals. And instead of listening to that, you made [00:27:00] your own. And I think another cool thing you've done is like, not only are you helping with like a lot of people go into teaching, you know, when they start kind of going a little bit more, not necessarily the franchise model cause that's unique, but you decided like I'm going to resell my services to someone else or whatever.
[00:27:15] You either go like knowledge or you just go with execution. You know, you become outsourced talent, which is the direction I ended up going. Or you go knowledge-based which you see a lot people selling courses and certification programs and things along those lines. You did both.
[00:27:31] Edward van der Kleijn: Yeah. It's the implementation is actually, it's actually something that Ryan Deiss said in a, um, in one of the trafficking conversion keynote.
[00:27:41] Um, and I remember making a note of it in my book and I use it all the time. It's about, um, so, and this is what we teach our partners is that when you sit in front of the business owner, you can assume they don't know where to go. Yeah. So you, you've got to get them to lean in because nobody wants to feel stupid.
[00:27:58] Right. And, [00:28:00] um, for them to say to you, I need help is actually that, that is, that is the, that is the moment you're looking for. Um, So show, show them, show them stuff for free show, show them, you know, do the free consulting bit, which is what everybody tells you. Not to do. Yeah, isn't it. Everybody tells you don't do free consulting, but if you make it part of the process.
[00:28:25] Yeah. And if we lose the CBJ, it is, that is the process. Yeah. You, you, you give something away for free on a lead magnet. Um, you take people through engage and then into subscribe. Um, and then convert is where you do a 73 point audit. Right? We use it for baiting. And we get our partners to use it for baiting because it works because you'd build a bit of trust with this, with this business owner and not everybody's going to sign up, not everybody's going to sign up.
[00:28:53] It's just part of the process. And if somebody says, wow, I want to find out a bit more, then you make your [00:29:00] recommendations. Yeah. And then not, everybody's going to close, but you realize that. But if you make that part of the process, it will become that little machine. Right. And you will be signing up customers and anybody can do that.
[00:29:10] Right. If you're willing to follow the process. So, um, we, we take, so just to go back to what you were saying earlier, we take a lot of guidance from franchise companies. Like McDonald's, like McDonald's took chefs out of the kitchen. Yeah. I mean, do you think the owner of a McDonald's franchise is a good cook?
[00:29:30] Christina Hooper: Probably not.
[00:29:31] Edward van der Kleijn: Probably not, but he's a good business person. Right. And everybody who works in the kitchen and McDonald's did, there are no knives in the kitchen. Right. So you'd take that. You take the core skill away. So you're, you're reducing your cost base in terms of producing the end product, but you're actually making a really affordable meal, which by a large is acceptable when you're talking about McDonald's yeah.
[00:29:55] Who doesn't like to like a McDonald's, but, um, it's all great food, is it at [00:30:00] the end of the day? Um, now with, so we've got this perhaps a really bad example because we do create a fantastic end product. Yeah. And we do it in an affordable way, but it doesn't have to cost that much. Right. So we still making, a profit, even if we're selling at a hundred dollars, um, you know, starting fee. And then you.
[00:30:18] Christina Hooper: I mean, you still create something that gets the job done, and you define the job as getting more business, getting more customers. Like you define the job as the right thing, where like a lot of web development companies, it's about delivering a website. That's the job. You looked past that. And we said, well, a website, it's not getting you new business.
[00:30:37] Isn't the end product. So it's like, you know, I think McDonald's is a great example just because it gets the job done. People that are looking for affordable, relatively tasty food, you know, that's the job. So it doesn't have to be like a $10,000, $20,000 website. If somebody's goal is, you know, just a booking [00:31:00] system to be able to get more leads for her one little practice, like that's the job.
[00:31:05] You do that job? Well, that changes the lives. Yup. I absolutely love it. Like this is one of those things. People need to rewatch this and rewatch this and rewatch this. Like, if you're struggling to scale your business, like all this stuff that Edward's sitting here doing guys. I mean, there's so many pieces to this that you're just going to have to rewatch this and dissect.
[00:31:29] That you've got to do in your business. It's just brilliant. Like, there's just so many pieces of it. Well, I know I've been keeping you talking for like 30 minutes, so like let's wrap it up a little bit. Um, do you have any advice or if somebody else is being told you can't do this, you're not good enough.
[00:31:44] If somebody else is struggling to scale, especially if they're in agencies, cause that's who you help a lot. Like, what advice would you have.
[00:31:53] Edward van der Kleijn: Wow. Um, uh, I'm still on a journey myself, so I'm perhaps not in a good position to do that. Um.
[00:31:59] Christina Hooper: We're [00:32:00] all on a journeys, nobody's at the end.
[00:32:02] Edward van der Kleijn: Yeah. So, uh, I'm still learning every day. Um, you know, still being challenged, um, every single day and that's the thing just be open, uh, open-minded enough to, um, to accept the challenges, you know, they're going to come shit happens, um, all the time.
[00:32:21] And, um, you know, just, and, and kind of keep working on yourself that that's been, that's been kind of an overarching theme, um, you know, w with this whole journey with Blam, um, that if you keep working on yourself, you did the only thing that's holding you back is you. Right. And so, and especially when you're, when you're a freelancer or you're self-employed, you are your boss.
[00:32:47] Your own worst boss, but also your own worst employee. And.
[00:32:52] Christina Hooper: Ooh, that is so true.
[00:32:54] Edward van der Kleijn: And it's it's so, and we've all been there and you're not an accountant. Yeah. [00:33:00] And somebody told you at some point, make sure you keep your receipts, but you've forgot why, because you know, uh, 12 months, 18 months into your business, and somebody says you need to do a tax return.
[00:33:14] Yeah, I admitted you're stuck. You didn't, you didn't keep your receipt. You didn't keep.
[00:33:21] Christina Hooper: Yeah.
[00:33:21] Edward van der Kleijn: Yeah, and I found that out the hard way as well. Yeah, but that comes as part of a business, you know, and the business isn't you. I found this as well. The business isn't you, the business is its own entity. You're just looking after it.
[00:33:35] So there is certain things there's, there's probably probably three things you need to be good at. And you need to face up to that. You really need to face up to that. Number one is sales. Number one is sales. It really is something you need to be good at. And I, and you know, throughout my whole journey, that has been always my goal.
[00:33:56] I want to become a good salesperson, right. And I've, I've been [00:34:00] not, I didn't even know the connotations against that. I, I, uh, my sales journey started in knocking on people's doors, literally domestic dwellings. Hello. I've got a subscription for, I've got to say hello. Hello? Hello. Boom. Another door shut.
[00:34:16] Like I'm a nice guy. So why are you doing this to me? Like, you know, I'm just what I'm trying to explain myself here, but this is what you end up doing is saying, well, why do people do this? You find out that most people don't like to be sold to. Yeah. So learn, learn the process. Yeah. I learned that it is a process because you do a hundred doors and you might sell something.
[00:34:38] The fact is you gave up at seven. Okay. So get good at sales. The second thing. So there was three things I said, yeah. The second thing that is, is it, it isn't all about you, but it isn't all about, you don't have to do everything yourself. There are people who are willing to help. Right. So get every resource that you can get from your local business community.
[00:34:59] [00:35:00] Right. Go and join a business networking group as a, as a start. Yeah. Go to the chamber of commerce. Yeah. Go to five feet. Because the, the funny thing is if you end up failing, which is very likely, you will, you will end up there anyway, because, because the citizens advice bureau is, is directly related to the welfare office.
[00:35:22] Yeah. Which is directly to relate it to the office. That's going to help people start their business. So these are the same people. Right now I'll have to find out. I have to find out the hard way. Right. I've been through that whole cycle and felt like an absolute dupe, like what, you know, and you know, so I don't want that for you.
[00:35:41] And the third, the third thing. Yeah. You need to face up to your relationship with money. You need to face it with your business is all about money and look, whichever part of the spectrum you are. Yeah, whether [00:36:00] you're on the capitalist or on whatever side you are. Yeah. If you have a passion for something, business is the quickest way for you to achieve those goals and businesses about money, you cannot help other people.
[00:36:16] If you cannot help yourself, if you, if your business sucks from a money perspective, your high and mighty pious goals are worth nothing. Sorry. That was a brutal truth, but it is,
[00:36:32] Christina Hooper: No, it's a powerful one. I mean, so many entrepreneurs are out there to try and help people. And at the end of the day, if you're the one that's doing 90% of the work in your business, you have no time to help people.
[00:36:43] If you're giving away too much time, trying to help people, you don't have any money to help people with. And it's like, you know, we see all these gurus doing these big things. Like I was on a thing that Pedro Adao did his little event that he did. And at the end of it, like, I think he charged something like 25 bucks or something.
[00:36:59] I forget what it [00:37:00] was. Some small monetary amount to be at his two-day or three-day event. He donated every bit of that to a charity at the end of the thing, he didn't keep any of the money donated at all. It's like, if you want to have that kind of impact, you know, I think he donated something like $80,000.
[00:37:14] Edward van der Kleijn: Yeah, and the relationship with money thing is a big thing. It really is. And look, I'm still, I'm still on my journey very much. So I've recently purchased Happy Money by Ken Honda. With highly recommended it's 99 P in the UK, uh, on, uh, on Kindle the moment, but that book could literally be worth millions because once you start your relationship with money improves, then you, you will, you will see it in a much better light.
[00:37:40] Yeah. And, um, I didn't even realize I had a, my relationship with money sucks, but yeah, I probably did because I didn't have enough. Do you know, and that's the thing, you know, it kept disappearing all the time, so there must be something wrong with that. And it's you. Yeah. That's not anybody, anybody else's fault because literally there is more money in the [00:38:00] world in the shakes.
[00:38:02] Literally you can shake. I mean, some people have lots and lots and lots of it. Yeah. And they might be a little bit boring, but I mean, they don't care because they got lots of money. And you, you might be super clever and handsome and wonderful and great. And you got all these great intentions. We got no money, so, and that's, that's that.
[00:38:21] And some of it's not your fault. Yeah. Because it's been sort of indoctrinated into you. Um, but you need to recognize that. Right. And it's in the innocent and the little things that you actually say in relation to spending money. And so I've, I've just launched a challenge. Two-months challenge. Yeah. And it's called Arigato Money, which is from Ken Honda.
[00:38:40] Yeah. And so for the next two months, whenever I talk about money, whether it's money coming into my life or coming out of my life, I'm just going to be helped, but I'm going to be happy about it, right? Because previously when I had bills to pay, oh my God, I was not a nice person. Right? It's like, not that again, oh, you [00:39:00] want that for you for your room?
[00:39:01] Or you want that? And it's just not healthy. Right. Meet me at, you know, actually spending that money that I'm getting something for that in return, which is a happy child. Yeah. Or, you know, a roof over my head or food on my table, that's awesome. Right. I'm not paid for that. How wonderful is that. Tax? Do you like paying tax?
[00:39:23] That's a tough question. Yeah. Would you like to pay more tax or less tax?
[00:39:30] Christina Hooper: Oh yeah. Everybody wants to pay less. That's kind of the goal is to pay no taxes. If you can.
[00:39:36] Edward van der Kleijn: Exactly. But if you say you want to pay more tax work, guess what happens? You earn more. It's really bizarre. But when you suddenly start thinking of it like that, bring on the tax guys who want to pay millions in tax guys.
[00:39:50] Well, I'll be making millions as well. That's the thing, right?
[00:39:56] Christina Hooper: That definitely sounds like a good read to kind of change how you think about money.
[00:40:00] Edward van der Kleijn: [00:40:00] It's unbelievable. And you know, I've only just figured this out reading the book. And I ,do you know what I mean? It's like, and, I mean, you listen to yourself talk, it's unbelievable.
[00:40:09] I'm doing it to myself. The reason you don't have any money is because of the way that you talk about it or think about it. It's nuts.
[00:40:16] Christina Hooper: I think one person said you develop your relationship with money when you're like, really little, I forget the age, it was like toddler age. And they're like, just listening to your parents and like your relationship with money starts way back then before you even really have any, you just listening.
[00:40:31] Edward van der Kleijn: Parents argue about money.
[00:40:32] They indoctrinate that, that nightmare into your, into your psyche without you even realizing it. So read the book and this guy is a legend. I mean, he had a traumatic experience when he was 10 years old. I won't tell you, cause it's kind of given away the, the big reason to book, but you've got, you've got to, this was a horrible, and this is in Japan where, you know, I mean, in America you go bankrupt, maybe three times in a lifetime.
[00:40:56] Right. So it's kind of normal now in, in, in [00:41:00] Japan, it's like, that is shame upon you and your family. Right? So, um, you have to read the book. And, uh.
[00:41:08] Christina Hooper: Yeah, I'm defintly gonna pick it up.
[00:41:10] Edward van der Kleijn: Yeah, it's, it's just, it's just incredible, you know, and then his, his whole being now is to help people have a better relationship with money and, and it's it's yeah, it's, it's kind of emotional when I'm reading.
[00:41:22] It's like, oh my God, this is literally, you know, my whole life to date is been about that. And then you pick up one book like that and, and that's because you kind of have to be humble enough to say, I don't know everything, right? I don't know it all.
[00:41:38] Christina Hooper: I think those are probably three of the best tips I have heard in a very long time.
[00:41:41] And it does just sum up like a lot of the problems I hear over and over and over again. So I love it.
[00:41:48] Edward van der Kleijn: And that's why I love business, it's the best school.
[00:41:52] Christina Hooper: Oh, it is, it absolutely is. I've learned so much every day, every week, every year, more than you ever would just [00:42:00] working a normal nine to five kind of job, it just expands your horizons,
[00:42:04] Edward van der Kleijn: I think as well, Christina, the fact that you said that you're also a high school dropout, I think that makes you more open to embrace it in because I think once you've gone through the educational system, you kind of.
[00:42:19] You become less. I dunno whether that's a thing because I've not been through it, but you kind of get stuck in your ways a little bit more. Yeah.
[00:42:28] Christina Hooper: Oh no, you absolutely do. I've talked to people that say they don't even like to hire kids that come out of college and stuff because they have to spend so much time, like untraining them before they can actually teach them anything.
[00:42:39] It's like the people who've just gotten in the trenches and learned. I mean, it's like, I've kind of got both different angles. Like I did the high school dropout thing, and then I ended up going back and then making it through college and did my two years that way. And I didn't like what I was doing every day.
[00:42:54] I did the thing, I did the college thing. I got the job. I was making the good money. I was sitting in a cubicle. I had [00:43:00] all the benefits. I had all the things, but I wasn't happy. So I started teaching myself to do stuff on the side and realized that just wasted over two years of my life in college, when I could have just.
[00:43:11] Dove in and learn the hard way. And I did, you know, graphic design, web development, all that taught myself all of it. It's like, then my son comes to me at the end of last year and he's like, halfway through high school. He just got done with his 10th grade year. And he's like, I am wasting my time because you've told me basically, you know, college was a waste of time for you that you don't, you don't use that degree anymore.
[00:43:33] He's like, did high school do anything? And it's like, well, I mean, you need the paper that says you graduated. That's helpful. Is there another way to get the paper? I was like, well, yeah, you can get a GED. So he actually opted to do that. He dropped out of high school, his 10th grade year, well going into the 11th grade year, he's going in a couple of days to get his GED.
[00:43:57] And he's back here working behind me at the [00:44:00] moment, um, producing podcast episodes, but I mean, it's just going a different route. I mean, it's like being open to not all paths have to be the same.
[00:44:11] Edward van der Kleijn: Exactly. Exactly. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. If you want to wrap things up. Um.
[00:44:17] Christina Hooper: Yeah, definitely, thank you for being here and doing this today.
[00:44:21] Edward van der Kleijn: Well, thank you for inviting me. My name is Edward van der Kleijn. If you want to check us out, go to blampartners.com. That's B for Bravo, L for Lima, A for alpha, M for Mike, partners.com.
[00:44:34] Christina Hooper: And I'll have that link anywhere you're watching this. So these episodes will be all over the place. So wherever you're watching this from that link will be somewhere near the video.[00:44:43] Um, so definitely check it out and then entrepreneurs. This is your call to take action. Join our email@example.com and figure out how to build a business that enables your lifestyle instead of taking over your life. So see you again, next time guys. Bye. [00:45:00] Thank you. .